Problem with running Schedule - Solved & Closed !!

itzikt1
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Joined: 29.08.2017, 07:05
Location: Israel

Problem with running Schedule - Solved & Closed !!

Post by itzikt1 » 26.12.2017, 14:44

Hi All !

try to run simple schedule unsuccessfully !
would appreciate any help !

Itzik
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Last edited by itzikt1 on 13.01.2018, 09:26, edited 2 times in total.

peter&basti
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Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by peter&basti » 26.12.2017, 15:12

Hi Itzig,

your trains are not running regardless with oder without schedules, because the location "Bohn Station" has a minimal occupied value of "3"!
So always 3 trains have to stay in this station with 3 tracks and no one may get out.

I changed this "minimal occupied" value to zero and both automatic and schedule works...

http://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=loc ... en#details

itzikt1
Posts: 12
Joined: 29.08.2017, 07:05
Location: Israel

Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by itzikt1 » 26.12.2017, 15:48

Hi Peter !
First, Thanks for your answer. unfortunately after changing "minimal occupancy" to 0 (as you suggest) - still don't work

I try to run "BR24_Train" with schedule "SC02"
and receive the message "Ghost train in block [BK07], fbid=FB23-all-reverse, code="

any suggestion ?
Itzik

cds
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Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by cds » 26.12.2017, 16:02

Hello Itzik!

Virtually your schedule SC02 runs well.
Did you happen to mix up the sensors physically in block BK07?

itzikt1
Posts: 12
Joined: 29.08.2017, 07:05
Location: Israel

Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by itzikt1 » 26.12.2017, 16:41

hi Claus

No, as explained in Rocrail wiki - I put 2 sensor for each block (Isolated track) one for "enter" and the other for "in".
sensor are working O.K. (when you run a train manually - you can see the activation/deactivation of the sensor)

regards
Itzik

cds
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Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by cds » 26.12.2017, 17:03

Hello Itzik!

Are some axles still on the IN sensor in block BK05 when the train triggers ENTER in block BK07?

Puuhhh, I've no more idea ...

peter&basti
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Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by peter&basti » 26.12.2017, 17:05

Hi Itzik,

in my simulation both schedule runs well.
(when you run a train manually - you can see the activation/deactivation of the sensor)
This is unfortunately not visible in the virtual simulation :wink:

- i checked the FB adresses, no double Adress visible.
- i am with claus, the ghost train may result fom a electrical problem on your layout.

By the way: The schedule 02 is not optimal with 2 direction changes in 1 schedule.

Better to divide into 3 schedules:

SC02a : Bohn -> BK05 -> BK07 -> BK09
SC02b : BK09 -> yard
SC02c : yard -> BK09 --> BK11 --> BK13 --> Bohn

And summarize them to a tour ...

itzikt1
Posts: 12
Joined: 29.08.2017, 07:05
Location: Israel

Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by itzikt1 » 26.12.2017, 18:22

Hi Claus / Peter
Claus - you are probably right ! when the train reach BK07 (enter) there are still some cars (axles) on BK05 - Thanks - will do some change in layout and check again !
Peter - As soon as I fix the first problem I will embrace your suggestion to divide SC02
Thank's - will do the changes (probably tomorrow and inform you (in forum) when done and if problem solved !

Regards
Itzik

itzikt1
Posts: 12
Joined: 29.08.2017, 07:05
Location: Israel

Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by itzikt1 » 26.12.2017, 18:36

Claus !
For Better understanding - the "gap" between to blocks must be Greater than the length of the train that traverse them - otherwise axles of "Tail of the train" will still be on the block when the "Head of the Train" will reach the next block (enter) ?

Regards
Itzik

peter&basti
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Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by peter&basti » 26.12.2017, 18:46

Hi,
For Better understanding - the "gap" between to blocks must be Greater than the length of the train that traverse them - otherwise axles of "Tail of the train" will still be on the block when the "Head of the Train" will reach the next block (enter) ?
NO. After IN can follow the ENTER of the successor Block immediately, within few centimeters. (on my layout and it works)

BUT: Between ENTER and IN of ONE Block the whole train have to fit.

itzikt1
Posts: 12
Joined: 29.08.2017, 07:05
Location: Israel

Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by itzikt1 » 26.12.2017, 19:06

Peter
Thank's - this is the real situation in my layout !! I have a gap of about ~17cm between BK05 and BK07 and (bk05/bk07) occupied by 2 sensor each (enter/in).
would be happy if you can you recheck the feedbacks in the "Block->Route" tab again and confirm that I made no mistake there ?

Itzik

peter&basti
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Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by peter&basti » 26.12.2017, 20:16

Hi Itzik
would be happy if you can you recheck the feedbacks in the "Block->Route" tab again and confirm that I made no mistake there ?
In fact that the schedules are running virtually without any problem, the logical arrangement of all feedbacks in Rocrail is correct.

What not possible to check in virtual mode are all physical and/or electrical influences.

Your GHOST seems to be a incorrect sequence of physical sensor events.

The sensors have to be triggered in the sequence ENTER Block one, IN Block one, ENTER Block two, IN Block two and so on..., regardless how long the sensors are activated.

Please check this while slowly driving on your layout.

cds
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Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by cds » 28.12.2017, 14:45

Hello Itzik!

Any news regarding your problem?

itzikt1
Posts: 12
Joined: 29.08.2017, 07:05
Location: Israel

Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by itzikt1 » 29.12.2017, 10:54

Hi Peter /Claus !
First - Marry Christmas & Happy new year !!
Today I start my weekend and decide to check all the feedback in my layout (Electrically) - hope to find the problem, at the end will inform you about any change.
Meanwhile I have a question regardless Block & Sensors:
I'm using marklin C-Track (3-rail) and implement feedback using Uhlenbrock 63330 - LocoNet Feedback module for 3-rail layouts (isolated masse - enclose URL of english user manual http://www.uhlenbrock.de/de_DE/service/ ... /INDEX.HTM

to simplify (One pic. worth 1000 words) I attached a pdf file of "my real layout" plan (Describing the tracks, Turnout, blocks,and real place of feedback )
after opening the file you will see that all blocks are occupied by 2 feedbacks (enter/in) placed in the beginning\and of each block - meaning - only one track is isolated (this isolated track - feedback - is connected to uhelnbrock 63330 - and will activate the event "enter/in" regarding the define block)
My question: electrically - is there any problem ??

e.g.
Just finish a small experience using "Sensor Control" in Rocrail to check the status of each sensor when train traverse them , and I saw that the status of the feedback change to "1" when train reach the start of block (isolated track) and change to "0" when the last car of the train leave that track.
regarding my problem - train is enter to "Block 05" (activate the first feedback "FB07 - ENTER event" ) then traverse thru "Block 05" till it's end (FB22 - IN event") and after ~16 cm (one track 24172) start to traverse "Block 07" (FB23 - ENTER event) when some cars still in "Block 05" - and in the "Sensor Control" in Rocrail I see 2 feedbacks with state "1" (FB22 - IN event of Block 05 and FB23 - ENTER event of Block 07) - Is that the reason for "Ghost train" ??

any suggestion ?

Regards
Itzik
Attachments
Itzik Layout-20-V04.pdf
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Besra
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Re: Problem with running Schedule

Post by Besra » 29.12.2017, 11:23

Hi Itzik,
I'm using marklin C-Track (3-rail) and implement feedback using Uhlenbrock 63330 - LocoNet Feedback module for 3-rail layouts
I'm using the 63330, too. Both with C-Track and old M-Track.
My question: electrically - is there any problem ??
From the description you provided: No, all OK. The length of the isolated track is not a problem at all, by the way. The standard track (188) is OK; you could even go down to a 094 or even 064 without any problem.
the feedback change to "1" when train reach the start of block (isolated track) and change to "0" when the last car of the train leave that track.
:thumb_up:
when some cars still in "Block 05" - and in the "Sensor Control" in Rocrail I see 2 feedbacks with state "1" (FB22 - IN event of Block 05 and FB23 - ENTER event of Block 07) - Is that the reason for "Ghost train" ??
No, this is OK. IN of the previous block and ENTER of the following block can be on / true / "1" at the same time. Just make sure the last car left the previous block before IN of the following block is triggered.

Regards
Bernd

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