RailCom KM/H

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rjversluis
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RailCom KM/H

Post by rjversluis » 15.03.2013, 10:30

Some decoders report the real loco KM/H.
In Rocrail this value is shown in the Loco Tab.
http://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=bidib-en#features
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dzidek

Post by dzidek » 17.03.2013, 00:34

Hi Rob,

Locos reporting real speed by themselves? Do you mean neither speed profiling nor time based actions are needed anymore? :-)

http://forum.rocrail.net/viewtopic.php?t=2504

Best regards,
Dzidek

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Post by rjversluis » 17.03.2013, 07:06

Hi Dzidek,

der Decoder berechnet diese kmh wert und meldet die über Railcom.
http://www.opendcc.de/info/railcom/railcom_lok.html

dzidek

Post by dzidek » 18.03.2013, 00:22

Hi Rob,
der Decoder berechnet diese kmh wert und meldet die über Railcom.
You're joking, aren't you? :-)
I'm seriously asking if there's a chance you will make use of the feature.

Best regards,
Dzidek

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Post by rjversluis » 18.03.2013, 06:15

No, I'm not joking,
Zimo decoders do report it.

I have no use for this value other then show it in case you know that the loco is really running.

http://www.zimo.at/web2010/documents/MX ... ecoder.pdf
Starting at page 18.

dzidek

Post by dzidek » 18.03.2013, 08:44

Hi Rob,

OK, I'll try once more and then give up.

It's revolution come true: a locomotive decoder is reporting real speed in realtime. So you can know it's position - without speed profiling and without time based events or lots of sensors.

Yes, it works with Zimo decoders only, only with latest firmware and it's probably not that precise. But that will change. Why not try to make use of it? All you need is block length... and lots of new code.

Best regards,
Dzidek

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Post by rjversluis » 18.03.2013, 08:47

Hi Dzidek,

yes I know but it can only be used as an indication because the decoder cannot really know if the loco is moving but only tell that the motor runs.

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Post by rjversluis » 18.03.2013, 09:18

The km/h report must be exact on the block enter side. You need a real time system to get this information in time and to process it in time.
A commuter train must have a motor and decoder on both sides...

IMHO you can only use this km/h report in very long blocks to calculate the approximately position of the train.

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Post by rjversluis » 19.03.2013, 13:18

I started a brainstorm page for your idea:

http://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=dev ... railcom-en

I can give you write permission if you want to add some thoughts...

peter&basti
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Post by peter&basti » 19.03.2013, 13:39

Hallo Rob,

ich habe einige Zimo Decoder im Einsatz, das mit der km/h Regelung habe ich auch schon gelesen...

Auf die Idee, das in Realtime auszulesen wäre ich nie gekommen :idea:

Scheitert bei mir aber leider vorerst an bidirektionalen Basics, wie Zentrale.....

lg Peter

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Post by rjversluis » 19.03.2013, 13:52

Hi Peter,

es wird nicht ausgelesen sonder gemeldet in RailCom Abschnitte.
Die Idee von Dzidek hallte ich immer noch für nicht realisierbar...

dzidek

Post by dzidek » 19.03.2013, 14:28

Hi Rob,

I realize Rocrail is built around a different philosophy of loco control and the idea of using speed feedback does not fit well. That's about the heated discussion we had 2 years ago, see the link a few posts back in this thread.

It might be easier for other programs (WDP, TC) that use loco speed measurements instead of time events and multiple sensor per block. Then speed profiling is simply not needed anymore, the data is available.

Of course all that makes sense only if we regard motor-based speed data as reliable - there might be feedback delays, loco slipping on track and other factors involved, not to mentioned the feature is supported by just one decoder manufacturer currently and only with the latest firmware. And only by the BiDiB controller.

Summing up: I've just offered an idea, I can't give specific hints or asses if it's doable at all. Btw, it's an old idea, it was seen as one of the key possibilities with Railcom years ago.


Best regards,
Dzidek

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Post by rjversluis » 19.03.2013, 18:25

Hi Dzidek,
dzidek wrote:I realize Rocrail is built around a different philosophy of loco control and the idea of using speed feedback does not fit well.
that is maybe your point of view but as you look at the 10 years Rocrail history there was never a new technology which did not fit in the basic design of it.
I do not see any problem in adopting a new way of train control but as far as I can see the km/h report can only be used as additional information.

My background is process automation and I would never use such a feedback for controlling trains... Maybe that is also the opinion of the 1:1 gauge because every railroad crossing has sensors to count the wheels before and after the crossing, and are not using a km/h report from the train to determinate when the crossing is free again.

dzidek

Post by dzidek » 19.03.2013, 22:03

Hi Rob,

I take your point, please don't get sensitive at that. And I do appreciate your work, as well as 1000+ Rocrail users do.

What's technically possible you know better. I've just pointed to an old idea, I think digital model-railway control is more about efficiency than prototypical behaviour.

Best regards,
Dzidek

PS. My background is epistemology (philosophy). I know nothing about railways :-)

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Post by stadtbahnzug » 20.03.2013, 19:42

Hi,
did anybody know, whether esu locomotive pilot 4.0 transfers the speed data ?

Thx Oliver

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