Green signal when following block is clear [Implemented]

rvooyen
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by rvooyen » 25.03.2016, 21:03

Rob,

ALL signals have always worked as I mention.

Loc leaves block1 and enters block 2. It is as shown. At this point the signal turns red on ENTER as the loc moves from one block to the next.

Try it with closed block and you will see.

With open block this is changed to IN, which is different and too late.
Try it and you will see,

Robert

rjversluis
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by rjversluis » 25.03.2016, 22:01

the open block is still open because in block 3 resides the same loco as in block 4.
Block 2 signals red so no train is allowed to run into block 3. Or is it normal to run through a red signal if the next is green?
As usual this topic is also not clear defined and everyone seems to have its 'own' rules.

rvooyen
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by rvooyen » 25.03.2016, 22:20

Rob,

You seem to be missing the essential point here.

In the situation shown, Rocrail - before we ever started discussion of open blocks - would SET signal 3 to RED as soon as loc hits ENTER of block 4.
Rocrail has always set the signal of the previous block to RED as soon as it hits the ENTER of the next block. This is as it should be and as it IS now.

EXCEPT NOW:

For open blocks the previous signal is only being set to red on hitting the IN of the next block, this is not correct - at least it is much too late and not as required or as has ALWAYS been in RR and every other control system.
When the front of the train hits the ENTER of the next block the signal of the previous block MUST BE set to RED. As has always and still is, the case in RR for closed block.

I am only pointing out that for open blocks the signal is being set from the IN - but should be set from the ENTER. Maybe someone else reading this can explain it better, since I do not seem to be able to make it clear to you. ???????? Frustrating.

I will never use it as it currently is, since this is not realistic at all. The ONLY CHANGE needed is - set signal to red on ENTER (as closed block) and NOT at IN.

It is my fault for not being able to explain this clearly. :cry:

Thank you for all your efforts on so many things!!

Robert

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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by rjversluis » 25.03.2016, 22:31

set signal to red on ENTER (as closed block) and NOT at IN.
what is the logic behind it?
Too late for what? B3 is occupied by loco NEW and also B4. B2 signals RED. Why should B3 signal red?

janvanderborden
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by janvanderborden » 25.03.2016, 22:33

Hi Rocrailers

The open block system can be nice but if i you travel back on the same route the signals show a strange behaviour.

Is the block open system only ment for one direction routes ?

br

jan

rvooyen
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by rvooyen » 25.03.2016, 22:34

I will try to explain with pictures.
sit-1.jpg
Start situation loc going from 1 to 4.
sit-2.jpg
Loc has moved from block 1 and is entering block 2. Signal 1 should now be set to red (as per closed block), but it is not.
sit-3.jpg
Loc has moved all the way to the IN of block 2 and only now is signal 1 set to red - too late. This is the difference with normal.

Hope this helps to explain.

Robert

rvooyen
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by rvooyen » 25.03.2016, 22:36

janvanderborden wrote:Hi Rocrailers

The open block system can be nice but if i you travel back on the same route the signals show a strange behaviour.

Is the block open system only ment for one direction routes ?

br

jan
Jan,

Open block can only be used for one direction travel and without splitting/joining of tracks.

Robert

janvanderborden
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by janvanderborden » 25.03.2016, 23:03

Ok Robert

it is also a condition

thanks for your reply

rjversluis
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by rjversluis » 26.03.2016, 09:11

Hi Robert,

you can give 11.001+ a try.
Attachments
plan.xml
(13.51 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

cds
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by cds » 26.03.2016, 09:18

Hello all!

I follow the discussion with interest although I wouldn't use "open block signal" anyhow (ETCS L2 :wink: ). But I know such block systems from my job (Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia).

My idea: Allow "open block signal" only in combination with critical block sections.

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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by rjversluis » 26.03.2016, 11:05

Hi Claus,
cds wrote:My idea: Allow "open block signal" only in combination with critical block sections.
because it is only for use for oneway only you do not need critical sections.

rvooyen
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by rvooyen » 26.03.2016, 12:37

Tested 11001.

Perfecto, wunderbaar, suberb, geweldig. It works great!

Many thanks. Since I did not start this topic I cannot add the [Feature implemented] tag to the heading.

I think I may make a youtube vid of the open/closed block feature one of these days.

For all those wishing to use the feature the config is:
Block/signal tick the OPEN BLOCK field and the block should be the NEXT block.
config open block.jpg
Block 1, Signal 1, Open block ticked, NEXT block (2).

Working:
loc1.jpg
Loc starts in block1, going to block 4.
loc2.jpg
Loc in block 3, signal behind red, but signal for block 1 now YELLOW. (Closed block would remain red)
When loc reaches block 4 then block 1 signal is GREEN (closed block would remain red).

In most countries
Red = stop, Yellow = slow to half track speed, or stoppable speed for next red. Green = track speed.

Thanks Rob! :rr_for_ever:

Robert

rjversluis
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by rjversluis » 26.03.2016, 15:00

Hi Robert,

tnx for testing. I only hope it will not stress your CPU. ;)

rvooyen
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by rvooyen » 26.03.2016, 15:53

Rob,

Only some blocks are open.
Thx.
R.

rvooyen
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Re: Green signal when following block is clear

Post by rvooyen » 27.03.2016, 21:54

Hi all,

There has been some discussion about open and closed blocks in the automatic control of trains.
Rob has now implemented an OPEN BLOCK option in Rocrail, but is somewhat apprehensive about it's usefulness.

Besides the fact that it makes Rocrail even more versatile, it is also a little more prototypical.

There is another great advantage of having open block option and that is - now trains can use the SINGLE block ahead reservation.
As I show in the linked youtube film, trains with single block reservation can now see a GREEN signal, which before they never could - only yellow.
So most of us would never use the single block reservation - now we can!

This allows faster trains with two block ahead reservation to pass slower trains that have single block ahead reservation - see the example.

So IMHO the open block option if used with restrictions, adds a great deal of extra automatic control options for trains on our layouts!

Thanks Rob for this additional feature!

Here is the youtube link with explanation of open and closed block controls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEQoqqZWpuE

Regards,

Robert

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