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Programming combined german signals HP0/1 and Sh0/1

Posted: 10.01.2019, 05:18
by applor
Hello,

I am looking for some assistance in how to program some signals. Specifically I am referring to the German combined semaphore signals of Hp0/1 and Sh0/1 used together in stations. I have attached a photo of the prototype.
Hp0/1 are for stop/go train movement and Sh0/1 are for stop/allow shunting. Hp1 and Sh1 need to both be shown to allow a train movement. Sh1 only for shunting movement. Otherwise Hp0/Sh0 are shown.

I have attached my plan for you to see. The combined signals are attached to block 22 (S7-3 and S7-4) and block 23 (S4-2 and S4-3).

These are two seperate signals (using Viessmann 4501 and 4515) each with two ports and so I have initially configured them in Rocrail this way.

However when I look at adding the signals to the block, I see there are only options for a main signal and an advance signal and there is no separate shunting signal.

I therefore believe I should only be using one rocrail signal object for both signals, is this correct? And from that I have been reading this signalling guide here:
https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=si ... ing_system

and for German railway signalling it says to use white aspect for Sh1 shunting only: line is clear, go after permission was granted.

I have not yet implemented the change to a single signal in rocrail for my combined station signals as I want to confirm this is correct and that the correct aspects will be shown for train movements.

Thanks!

Re: Programming combined german signals HP0/1 and Sh0/1

Posted: 10.01.2019, 11:04
by Besra
Hi Eric,
I therefore believe I should only be using one rocrail signal object for both signals, is this correct?
This may be one solution. But remember, the white aspect is available for colour light signals only. Semaphores show a maximum of three aspect, thus no white.
Another way could be to kind of misuse the advance signal:
An advance signal will always show the corresponding aspect, i.e. Vr0 if the main signal shows Hp0, Vr1 if main signal is on Hp1 and so on. Thus, one could simply wire main and advance signal in parallel. Consequently I wouldn't add advance signals to the Rocrail plan. The "Distant signal" field will remain empty.
Instead of the advance signal, the shunting signal could be added to the "Distant signal" field. As a result, shunting signal and main signal will be operated in parallel in automatic mode but you still can operate the shunting signal manually for manual shunting operations. Automated shunting operations are also possible using dedicated shunting routes and adding the shunting signal to the route commands. The latter requires some fine tuning which I could explain in more detail if you are interested.

Zwischenablage-1.png
Zwischenablage-1.png (3.44 KiB) Viewed 234 times
Zwischenablage-2.png
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Note that these are my symbols, not the official ones.

Settings in block bk1:

Zwischenablage-3.png
Zwischenablage-3.png (6.84 KiB) Viewed 234 times
Regards
Bernd

Re: Programming combined german signals HP0/1 and Sh0/1

Posted: 10.01.2019, 22:04
by applor
Hello Bernd,

Excellent reply and solution! That should work as I need it to and as you say, I can still use my shunting signal independently for automated shunting operations.

Automated shunting routines are absolutely of interest to me and have always been part of my long term goals with Rocrail.

I am (hoping) to eventually have automated / random routes where the loco will decouple from the train (I have decouplers on the platform tracks), drive to the shunting pocket (after Sh1) and then into my BW before retiring in the roundhouse from the turntable.
I would have another operation where a loco would leave the roundhouse onto the turntable, drive to the shunting pocket and then onto the platform to couple up with the train waiting on the platform.
I expect such an implementation will be time consuming and difficult to do and I am in no rush to implement it (I am only just getting my normal train routes working) but if you could provide some steps that would be great!

Perhaps a simpler starting point that I would prefer to get working first is an automated shunting manoeuvre in my branchline terminal station:

Here I need a train to enter the station to block 70 (standard route).
The loco decouples from the train (using decoupler 3-5a) and travels to block 77.
Turnout E1-1 changes to thrown and the loco travels into block 71.
Turnouts E1-3 and E10-1 are also thrown so the loco can continue to travel through into block 86.
Turnout E10-1 is then set straight, the loco is reversed and travels back into block 70 to connect with the rear of the train again.

The train would then be set to travel in reverse and leave block 70 on standard route back to the main station area.


I believe this terminal station shunting manoeuvre is possible with Rocrail - is that correct?
I am not asking you to program it or anything but I would happily take some advice on how to make it work - I believe I need to use actions? I am yet to touch actions.

Re: Programming combined german signals HP0/1 and Sh0/1

Posted: 10.01.2019, 22:51
by Besra
Hi Eric,

automated shunting is possible with Rocrail using either actions or scripts or the command recorder or a combination of these. Maybe there's more...
Unfortunately I cannot in any way help with that because I'm not using it. Shunting on my layout is purely manual only :oops:

I remember a few examples being presented on the forum by other members. See also the wiki user pages.

Regarding signals I can give you some hints, though. For shunting on dedicated shunting routes, it may be necessary to link the shunting signal with the route instead of the block. Once you have an example I am willing to help you with that, if necessary. For the moment I recommend this link: https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=si ... ith_routes.

Best regards
Bernd