Distant Signals in Automatic Mode Topic is solved

KPeter
Posts: 123
Joined: 30.09.2014, 03:27

Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by KPeter » 20.02.2019, 02:55

I have been spending a couple of days now trying to get my signals to function properly. My block signals and 3 aspect main signals all function as they should. I even have them working properly in crossing blocks.

What I cannot seem to achieve is to have the Distant Signals function in automatic mode. They stay in Vr0 (yellow yellow) mode no matter what commands I give. I can switch them properly manually through their 3 aspects from either Rocrail or my CS2.

So this may be a stupid question, but for automatic mode in which block do I list the distant signal - the block where it is actually located in, or the block that has the main signal that the distant signal is showing the status for? I have tried both and it doesn't seem to make a difference.

Am I missing a step?

Thanks
Peter

Bernie
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Location: Wuppertal

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by Bernie » 20.02.2019, 07:44

Hi Peter,

a distant signal belongs allways to one or more main signals. If only one block follows, it is really simple. Just match the distant signal to the same block as the main signal. If there are more blocks possible, for example a station, it´s getting rather complicated. Just create an issue https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=issue-en Without these files no one can help you.

jpultar
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Joined: 23.04.2017, 14:33

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by jpultar » 20.02.2019, 07:50

Hi Peter,

how it works to assign signals and distant signals in general you'll find here:

https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=block-signals-en

KPeter
Posts: 123
Joined: 30.09.2014, 03:27

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by KPeter » 21.02.2019, 16:49

Thank you both for your replies. It confirmed to me that the distant signal needs to be placed into the block that it refers to, not the block that it is physically located in. With the sample file I also immediately saw where I was going wrong. Using your example Plan my distant signal SD2 is located on the main signal mast of SG1. This is on the - side of B1 and I made the mistake of assigning SD2 to the - side of B2 instead of the + side.

Making this change shows the correct display in automatic mode on my screen and appears to provide the correct output, but the signal does not change. I can only assume that there is some miscommunication to the LDT signal decoder and I will try various configurations to see if I can get it to work correctly in Automatic. It works fine in Manual.

One other question I have is regarding the symbol used in Rocrail for the distant signal. In Rocrail the green lights are the top row of the diagonal lights and the yellow are the bottom row of the diagonal lights. This is directly reverse to the DB distant signals and the associated model lights that have yellow on top and green on the bottom. Why was it done this way?

Peter

KPeter
Posts: 123
Joined: 30.09.2014, 03:27

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by KPeter » 22.02.2019, 02:22

I have now tried to set the distant signal interface to the LDT decoder using Default, Patterns, and Linear and non will change the status of the distant signal from Vr0.

Attached is the Issue file.
issue.zip
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jpultar
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Joined: 23.04.2017, 14:33

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by jpultar » 22.02.2019, 07:11

Good Morning Peter,

here you'll find how to configure signals also with pattern.

https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=signal-setup-en

I'm using Uhlenbrock signal decoders and after a learning curve and support from Bernd I made it working with my Decoders.

KPeter
Posts: 123
Joined: 30.09.2014, 03:27

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by KPeter » 23.02.2019, 04:11

Danke Jürgen.

As I stated previously I have tried configuring the distant signal using default addressing, patterns, and linear. In all these cases the distant signal can be manually switched from Rocrail through the LDT decoder to show all 3 aspects yellow-yellow, green-green, and yellow-green. Once I switch to automatic the signal goes to yellow-yellow and stays there regardless what its associated main signal shows.

After you supplied the information this morning I tried the Patterns for a switching decoder setup and again it works in manual, but not automatic.

I have even tried another LDT decoder with another distant signal in another part of my layout with the same outcome.

Did my Isssues.zip file show anything I might be doing wrong? I just do not know what else I can try.

Peter

hermannk
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Location: Kiel Germany

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by hermannk » 23.02.2019, 05:01

Moin Peter,
your signal is at the Plus-Side of block "09", so the corresponding distant signal has to be configured at the Plus-Side as well.
Now a loco enters the block "09" from the Minus-Site and the distant signal shows yellow-green and the signal shows green - very well.
Kind regards
Hermann
Reference to the Wiki:
https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=bl ... =vorsignal
https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=block-signals-en
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KPeter
Posts: 123
Joined: 30.09.2014, 03:27

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by KPeter » 23.02.2019, 07:01

Thank you Hermann.

Yes that is the way I had it originally on the plus side of block 09 and it was not working, so I changed it to the minus side where it is physically located, but obviously that didn't work.

In the meantime I had changed it back to the plus side, but it is still not working. I see it change on the Rocview screen, but not at the signal itself. It must be something with the LDT decoder communication in automatic that it doesn't function properly, because it does work properly in manual from both Rocrail or the CS2.

Peter

KPeter
Posts: 123
Joined: 30.09.2014, 03:27

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by KPeter » 23.02.2019, 17:56

As others have suggested this should be fairly straight forward, and I never imagined I would have this degree of difficulty in getting a distant signal to function in coordination with a main signal. I have tried various different settings again this morning with no luck. However, I get correct indication of the aspect on my track plan and see that the appropriate output is being generated but the signal itself does not respond. Therefore my question now is does anyone have the same setup that I have:

- Maerklin CS2
- LDT Signal Decoder setup for Maerklin protocol
- Viessmann 4015 entry signal with distant signal

If you do, and have the distant signal working properly, would you mind sharing with me what aspect settings you are using (patterns, modified patterns, linear, ???), what signal activation time you have set in the CS2 (50 ms seems to be default and I have increased this to 200 ms), or anything else I may have overlooked in this setup.

I have 16 more distant signals to configure in my layout, and know that the ones associated with the stations will be more complicated, but if I cannot get a simple one working, I certainly don't want to go to that step.

Thanks for any help.
Peter

KPeter
Posts: 123
Joined: 30.09.2014, 03:27

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by KPeter » 24.02.2019, 21:46

Partial success!!

A member on the Marklin Users forum correctly identified that my problem was most likely a command timing issue and suggested changing this to 200 ms. A 250 ms setting of Command Time gives me a consistent aspect changing for that signal. However, since this distant signal is on the previous block's main signal (Viessmann 4015) it only displays before the locomotive trips the Block 09 Enter sensor. Then it goes into dark mode.

Here is where my problem comes in. To see the aspect changes I have disabled the dark mode for now and have observed the following:

- If the main signal SG09W shows green the distant signal shows yellow-green until the loco trips the 09 Enter sensor at which time the signal switches to green-green
- Under normal dark switching I would never see the green-green aspect.

My question is why does it go through these 2 steps? Also should I make further time setting adjustments on the Command Time and Switch Time settings to overcome this? I'm really not sure what the difference is between these two settings and perhaps you can clarify this for me as well.

I have attached an updated Issue file.

Peter
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KPeter
Posts: 123
Joined: 30.09.2014, 03:27

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by KPeter » 26.02.2019, 15:22

Hat niemand eine Antwort für mich? Was ich beobachte, ist vielleicht für DB-Signale normal. Bitte beraten.

Mit vielen Dank.

Peter

Besra
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Location: North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by Besra » 26.02.2019, 19:28

Hi Peter,

please, do not mix languages. You can create a German thread in the German part of the forum if you like to. Most users are either from Germany or speak German. If you do so, please add a link to this here thread.

I personally do not know much about blanking of distant signals. My decoders do that for me, no need to configure anything 8). Please have a look at https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=si ... nkeltasten (in German only). Created by yet another Peter ;)

Regards
Bernd

smitt48
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Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by smitt48 » 26.02.2019, 19:59

Hi Peter,

Or my translation in English. :D
https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=signaling-en

Tom

KPeter
Posts: 123
Joined: 30.09.2014, 03:27

Re: Distant Signals in Automatic Mode

Post by KPeter » 27.02.2019, 04:57

Thank you Tom. Your document shows the problem that I am having with the distant signal.

When referring to my Plan in the Issue submitted, when the main signal SG09W turns green (Hp1) the associated distant signal turns yellow/green (Vr2) both on Rocview and at the signal. Only when the loco passes over the Enter sensor in block 09 does the distant signal turn green/green (Vr1) in both Rocview and at the signal. This does not seem to be correct and I am asking why does Rocrail have these 2 steps?

Peter

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