Rocrail and the CS2

MFX and FX conflict

Postby A&J » 06.05.2011, 03:58

Besra:

I have been entering my locomotives into the system but I have come across an interesting situation. That is, I'm trying to enter in a locomotive (A Marklin BR 18.4 (S 3/6) marklin number 37187) and it is a locomotive with an FX decoder. The Rocrail wiki tells me to enter in the given address of 18, however, this number is already in use by my MFX BR 85 locomotive. I am wondering if I can change one of the addresses of these two locomotives, however, the class 18 won't accept a new address, and I haven't tried to change the 85's, what would you suggest?

Another thing is that I have a ROCO BR 218 (AC) that is on my CS2 under the DCC setting, since I think it runs better under DCC (POM) than under the Marklin AC format. Because I already have a the Marklin BR 218 how do I enter the locomotive without throwing Rocrail out of sync?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks again.
A&J
 

Postby Besra » 06.05.2011, 08:13

Hi James,

the following is what I think about your questions but I may be totally wrong because I'm not a CS2 user.

Perhaps someone else can help or confirm?

Concerning the FX BR 18.4 and the MFX BR 85, respectively, I think the same address should be no problem provided the protocol is set to Motorola for the FX and to Server defined for the MFX loco.
Changing the MFX-address of the BR 85 won't work because MFX-addresses are assigned by the controller (CS2) itself, as far as I understood. You may change the Motorola-address of the BR 85 but this won't affect the MFX-address.

The BR 218 locos are a different story. The Marklin one will probably not "understand" DCC but the Roco one may have a multi-protocol decoder which could receive both Motorola and DCC commands resulting in a conflict. I suggest to change the address of the DCC loco as it may be easier - without opening the loco housing. Remember to set the protocols to NMRA-DCC for the Roco machine and to Motorola for the Marklin one.
Another aspect is to assign different Rocrail-IDs to the locos. Remember the ID has to be unique. I suggest to name the locos "BR 218-1" and "BR 218-2" or "BR 218 red" and "BR 218 blue" or what ever the difference may be. You can, of course, use the complete loco numbers, "218 217-8" for example.

Best regards
Besra
Maerklin H0, DCC and MM, Intellibox (I) via ULNI, Booster Tams B4, Throttle Digitrax UT4, LocoNet.
Loco decoders: Zimo, Uhlenbrock, Maerklin & ESU.
Rocweb, Win10 32bit & 64bit
Besra
 

Postby A&J » 06.05.2011, 09:47

Besra:

As always my friend... good, and sound advice on both issues. It's quite late right now, and I'm just checking my mail before I turn in for the night. I will give your suggestions a try later today, and I will let you know how things turn out. :)
A&J
 

Postby A&J » 07.05.2011, 17:30

Besra

I have since initiated your suggestions to 100% success. All (at this point) is up and running. There still are a couple of glitches at this point, but I can live with them :D

Now it's time to tackle the block question. As my layout is only partially constructed at this time, I'm going to attempt a shuttle program consisting of 4 sidings and 2 end points. If I understand the system I will need between 10 and 12 sensors for this to take place, 2 for each of the sidings and 1 or 2 for each of the end blocks. I have supplied an attachment to demonstrate what I mean. I don't know if I need 2 sensors for blocks 3 and 6, but I want to set up a continuous loop and enable a section in each block for a slow down area. Any advice would be appreciated

Thanks again.
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A&J
 

Postby Besra » 08.05.2011, 10:04

Hi James!

You wrote:I have since initiated your suggestions to 100% success. All (at this point) is up and running.
That's good news!

Your test plan will definitely need 6 sensors (one per block). It is, however, recommended to use 12 (two per block). You can use up to four sensors per block if you want to. See Sensors and Blocks for detailed information.

The logic described in the picture is not quiet that of Rocrail. To me it sounds like adopted from an electromechanical (contacts and relays) step control.
A loco started in block 6 will, by random choice, go to either block 1 or 2 in basic settings. Switch 2 to will be set before the loco starts. The loco will, depending on your settings, either wait a defined time in block 1 or directly proceed to block 3 where it will either wait or directly proceed to either block 4 or 5 and so on. If more locos come into play the automatic will choose destination blocks on the basis of occupancy states. E. g. if there is a loco occupying block 1 and a second loco is started from block 6 the second loco will go to block 2. Or if a loco is in block 1 and a second one is in block 3 the first one will not start before block 3 is free.
Switches are always set before a loco is started from a block, not after. All switches including the non-switchable ones have to be added to the relevant routes in order the automatic to decide whether the route is clear or not.
Everything can be fine-tuned of course. If, for example, you want a loco in block 1 not to start before a second loco has arrived in block 2 you may use the Flow Management of Locations.

Best regards
Besra
Maerklin H0, DCC and MM, Intellibox (I) via ULNI, Booster Tams B4, Throttle Digitrax UT4, LocoNet.
Loco decoders: Zimo, Uhlenbrock, Maerklin & ESU.
Rocweb, Win10 32bit & 64bit
Besra
 

Sensor control

Postby A&J » 10.05.2011, 04:44

Besra:

Thanks for the web pages they are helpful. However, I must ask you, first of all, is it possible to use Maerklin's s88 decoders for sensors? If so, how do I make the connections. I have followed the tutorial section of Rocrail however, nothing happens.

I am using the Viessmann 5233 and 5217 to detect track occupancy, and my understanding is that each section of track must have the third rail isolated. With Rocrail's sensor system do I change this and isolate the ground rail, do I use circuit tracks for occupancy detection, or can I use s88's?

Another thing is that when I go to analyze the circuit with 1 block and 2 sensors, no circuit is detected. It is my view that I must be able to detect a circuit/route before I can expect the sensors to work. I will keep trying to figure this out, however any help would be appreciated. You are correct when you were thinking that my route was partly relays and controls.

The Maerklin control unit is capable of establishing a shuttle route, however, it is very limited in scope. I will eventually change this route, once I have the layout complete enough to send a train on the entire circuit, but for now, I just want to see if I can get Rocrail to set up a complex shuttle.

Sorry, I know I should walk before I run and at this point, that's what I would like to do... I just want to establish a block.
A&J
 

Postby Besra » 10.05.2011, 07:54

Hi James!

You wrote:is it possible to use Maerklin's s88 decoders for sensors?
Yes, of course!

You wrote:If so, how do I make the connections.
Sorry, I have no good answer to this question as I'm using LocoNet - but see the Viessmann manuals for instance.

The Viessmann 5233 is an occupancy detector for the s88-bus. The Viessmann web page states you have to isolate a track section and use the "third rail" in the Marklin system. The 5233 is a current detector; every Loco or cars with lights will draw current and will be detected.
The Viessmann 5217 is a feedback decoder which is used together with switching tracks and / or contact track sections and /or switching contacts (reed contacts, etc.) according to fig. 5 of its manual.

You wrote:With Rocrail's sensor system do I change this and isolate the ground rail, do I use circuit tracks for occupancy detection, or can I use s88's?
I guess there's a misunderstanding in this. s88 is the sensor bus. The bus connects feedback modules to the command station. Sensors can be either current detectors (e.g. Viessmann 5233) or contacts (single pulse: switching tracks, reed contacts or permanent contacts: contact track sections) connected to a decoder like the Viessmann 5217. You can use any of them in any combination with Rocrail. Just make sure you have the right decoder ;)

You wrote:Another thing is that when I go to analyze the circuit with 1 block and 2 sensors, no circuit is detected.
You need at least two blocks! A route from a block back to itself makes no sense because the block will be occupied by the loco starting there. It can't go anywhere because the destination block (the same block) is occupied by the loco itself :oops: .

You wrote:It is my view that I must be able to detect a circuit/route before I can expect the sensors to work.
This is not true. However, first of all make sure your CS2 is responding to the sensor signal. You may have to set up the sensors in the CS2 first. Additionally, please have a look at s88 feedback support.

Best regards
Besra
Maerklin H0, DCC and MM, Intellibox (I) via ULNI, Booster Tams B4, Throttle Digitrax UT4, LocoNet.
Loco decoders: Zimo, Uhlenbrock, Maerklin & ESU.
Rocweb, Win10 32bit & 64bit
Besra
 

Postby Besra » 10.05.2011, 11:18

Some additional info:

I wrote:However, first of all make sure your CS2 is responding to the sensor signal. You may have to set up the sensors in the CS2 first.


I think it's easier if you see the CS2 response but do not know if it is prerequisite. You possibly have to create sensors on the CS2 in order to do so. The manual should be able to tell you more.
So there's some questions you might want to answer yourself:

- Do I have to create sensors on the CS2?
- Do I have to enable the s88 bus on the CS2? Is it disabled by default?
- Do I have to set up the s88 modules on the CS2?
- Do I have to specify the number of feedback modules on the CS2?
- Did I specify the number of feedback modules in Rocrail?

Best regards
Besra
Maerklin H0, DCC and MM, Intellibox (I) via ULNI, Booster Tams B4, Throttle Digitrax UT4, LocoNet.
Loco decoders: Zimo, Uhlenbrock, Maerklin & ESU.
Rocweb, Win10 32bit & 64bit
Besra
 

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