[Solved] Finder goes to terminal blocks. Topic is solved

rvooyen
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[Solved] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rvooyen » 20.02.2019, 15:58

Hi,

I have started using the finder (have not used it before - reliability?).
It seems to be very sensitive.

Routes that worked before are not being used by the finder.

An example I cannot seem to solve in the attached plan. Level 2.

Put loc 216-068 into block 22-Steelyard and set destination to 41-Groll/Farmers. The finder stops. Route should be 18,45, 41-G
Put loc in block 18 set dest to 41-Groll/Farmers and finder stops. Route should be 45, 41-G
BUT:
Put loc in block 18 set dest to 45 and finder works. From 45 set dest to 41-Groll and finder also works. So step by step is ok but longer route not???

I have set all the params I can think of loc types etc etc. Also Finder puts train into terminal blocks even if set not to.
Maybe I have missed something.

Not sure I want to continue with the finder. Is it reliable?

Robert
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Last edited by rvooyen on 03.03.2019, 13:30, edited 3 times in total.

rjversluis
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Re: Finder?

Post by rjversluis » 20.02.2019, 17:30

Hi Robert,

the Finder is OK, but needs a valid support key.
Attach an issue if you encounter problems.

rvooyen
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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rvooyen » 21.02.2019, 12:56

I have now created an issue on the finder as follows:

Not an issue but a comment.
If the finder is run then it runs the analyser before starting. This often stops the finder for minor issues.
I had a block in two locations (for years now) with no problems in routes. But analyser creast error so finder does not run.
I have removed this for now to creat the issue.

Issue:
I have a complex layout over multiple levels and have a number of terminal blocks also.
The finder is sending trains (virtual mode) to terminal blocks even though this has been checked not to, in trying to find a route to the destination (which is a terminal block).

Example in the issue.zip. Loc ACTS 7105 is placed in block 22-STEELYARD.
It is set a destination 80_Europort. This is a terminal block. Finder should be allowed to END in a terminal block but not use any other terminal blocks.

I have now done many tries of the above example.
In some cases the loc is sent via bloakc 18 to 46-Kijf-AD which is a terminal block.
Sometimes it gets past this and goes to the upper level and then ends in the 76-Vnlo-AD terminal block.

The route it should take is to the loop at 72 then back and into 80-Europort.
I wonder if the finder can handle such complex routes? But it certainly should not go into any terminal blocks before its destination.

Attached the issue.zip.

Robert
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rjversluis
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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rjversluis » 21.02.2019, 13:08

Are the blocks set as Terminal Station?
https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=bl ... al_station
Is the selected train of commuter type?

rvooyen
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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rvooyen » 21.02.2019, 15:12

All terminals are set as terminal. All trains in question are not commuter.
Think after 6 years RR I can pass basics. :))

Looks like Finder has a learning curve, becuase I did get the correct route after mnay tries. But on restart it again went into a terminal block.
(All virtual otherwise it would be a mess.

These last years I have only used man-made routing for all train activities. I thought i would try the finder.

Robert

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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rjversluis » 21.02.2019, 15:18

Hi Robert,

the Finder does not create routes: The Analyser does.
The Finder tries to find a way from A to B using recursively the available routes.
If it finds a way, it will generate a one time schedule. Those schedules do not survive a restart of Rocrail.

The Finder does not learn; It keeps ways found as schedules.

The Terminal issue is not correct; Should be extracted with a small example.

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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rjversluis » 21.02.2019, 15:45

Hi Robert,

I did a small test:

Code: Select all

20190221.154246.463 r9999a cmdr8A60 OFinder  0349 init location map...
20190221.154246.463 r9999I cmdr8A60 OFinder  0589 find a path from bk1 to bk3
20190221.154246.463 r9999a cmdr8A60 OFinder  0195 find a path from bk1 to bk3 (4) depth=0 offset=0
20190221.154246.463 r9999a cmdr8A60 OBlock   1879 Block [bk2] is free []
20190221.154246.464 r9999a cmdr8A60 OFinder  0158 skip terminal block bk2 because loco loco1 is not a commuter
As you can see the Finder does not use the Terminal block.
But without the Finder option "Start only with a schedule after DnD" the train will leave without schedule.

rvooyen
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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rvooyen » 21.02.2019, 16:04

Rob,

I think the issue has to do with how far ahead the finder looks?
On shorter routes the finder avoids the terminals - I have already tested this by starting further along a route. so small example will not show.

I have some routes (rabbit holes) that are 4-5 blocks long that end in a terminal and the finder can't seem to see this far since it must decide to go another route before this.
The route I am testing is 15 blocks long, but at about block 7 is takes a rabbit hole and ends in a terminal 5 blocks ahead.

Robert

rvooyen
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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rvooyen » 21.02.2019, 16:27

An example:

Loc ACTS 7105 is placed in block 79 with destination 80-Europort. It immediately heads to the terminal block 76-Vnlo-AD.
The route should be 70,84,72,84,70, then 80. A double-back on itself.

If the loc is placed further along in block 72, it does find 80.
Finder1.jpg
The finder setup.
Finder2.jpg
Robert
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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rjversluis » 21.02.2019, 17:12

Hi Robert,
Loc ACTS 7105 is placed in block 79 with destination 80-Europort.
I did so too with alternative path set to 100:
skip terminal block 80-Europort because loco ACTS 7105 is not a commuter

Code: Select all

20190221.171201.625 r9999a cmdr122F OBlock   1879 Block [80-Europort] is free []
20190221.171201.625 r9999a cmdr122F OFinder  0158 skip terminal block 80-Europort because loco ACTS 7105 is not a commuter
20190221.171201.626 r9999a cmdr122F OBlock   1879 Block [70] is free []
20190221.171201.626 r9999a cmdr122F OBlock   1879 Block [78-SU/VAM] is free []
20190221.171201.626 r9999a cmdr122F OBlock   1879 Block [77] is free []
20190221.171201.626 r9999a cmdr122F OBlock   1879 Block [86-ALM] is free []
20190221.171201.626 r9999a cmdr122F OBlock   1879 Block [67] is free []
20190221.171201.627 r9999a cmdr122F OBlock   1879 Block [77] is free []
20190221.171201.627 r9999a cmdr122F OBlock   1879 Block [78-SU/VAM] is free []
20190221.171201.627 r9999a cmdr122F OBlock   1879 Block [84] is free []
20190221.171201.641 r9999a cmdr122F OLoc     4373 <lc id="ACTS 7105" scheduleid="finder" cmd="go" controlcode="" slavecode="" server="infw122FA970"/>

20190221.171201.641 r9999I cmdr122F OLoc     4378 processing cmd="go" for [ACTS 7105]
20190221.171201.641 r9999W cmdr122F OLoc     4396 skip go for [ACTS 7105]; no finder schedule set
Settings:
finder.png
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rvooyen
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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rvooyen » 21.02.2019, 17:47

The destination should not be skipped if terminal.

Robert

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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rjversluis » 21.02.2019, 17:50

rvooyen wrote:
21.02.2019, 17:47
The destination should not be skipped if terminal.
now I've lost you... -o

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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rvooyen » 21.02.2019, 18:17

Many destinations = last block of route may be terminal blocks. So finder must skip all terminal blocks "en route" but not the destination (block).

Robert

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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rjversluis » 21.02.2019, 18:57

The Wiki says:
Avoid terminal blocks for none commuter trains

If a train is allowed to enter a terminal block this could be a dead end.
Use this option to avoid running into terminal stations.
There is no option to tell the Finder to use a terminal station as destination and skip them in between...

Your Issue is: " Finder goes to terminal blocks."
But it does not.

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Re: [Issue] Finder goes to terminal blocks.

Post by rjversluis » 21.02.2019, 21:25

Hi Robert,
rvooyen wrote:
21.02.2019, 18:17
Many destinations = last block of route may be terminal blocks. So finder must skip all terminal blocks "en route" but not the destination (block).
I corrected this in case "Check destination permissions" is not set.

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